Dec 6, 2023·edited Dec 6, 2023Liked by Experimental Fat Loss
Yo dude! This is great. You are an amazing scientist. You have helped me learn new things. I appreciate your time. I want to try the ex150 soon. Im working my way into it. Anyhow I’m here reading your stuff. Godspeed you glorious bastardo. :-)
What do you think about replacing the heavy cream with coconut butter? It's a lot easier to eat in my opinion.
I can't find it in your calculator so we have to improvise a bit. The basic macros on the brand I have are: 65g of fat, 7.3g of sugar, 16g of fiber and 6.9g of protein. Recipes for coconut butter online make it from desiccated coconut, which does have an entry here: https://foods.exfatloss.com/food/170170 . The macros line up with the butter that I've got.
Comparing the protein content to tenderloin steak (https://foods.exfatloss.com/food/170237), it does not seem much worse in terms of BCAA and isoleucine. Only 1.1% PUFA fat, which is why I chose it - it seems even better than heavy cream.
Of course one would have to supplement with some other protein just to make sure all the amino acids are covered. I'm also ignoring the carbs and fiber hoping it does not matter too much.
Your experiments are interesting. I just want to report that I lost 35 lbs in six months, went from 195 to 160. I'm 5'11.
I simply counted calories with the MyNetDiary app. It's a terrific and simple way to diet. You can eat anything you want, just stop when you've reached your daily quota, which for me is about 1,900 calories. I especially like that I can drink 3 oz. of sherry every day :o)
The 'Lents (Soylent, Huel, Mana) that have the fat macro prioritzed are Super Fuel (Customizable, Can easily get to ~55%), Huel RTD (42%, Spendy), & yFood (Upper 40s, just got subsidized by Nestle, only powder that takes water with a good ratio).
I noticed you tried lents & commented that it may have worked had you supplemented them with something really fatty like cream, these are the way when it comes to not having to do extra work.
Low protein can work for awhile, especially if obese, but may not be sustainable long-term. Consider just adding a little protein powder to your coffees for a high protein, low-calorie boost if you reach that point.
Losing weight too fast with low protein intake is associated with heart issues though, so be careful. Good luck!
The metabolism of excess protein is a complex process that involves several steps. According to one source¹, proteins are not stored for later use, so excess proteins must be converted into glucose or triglycerides, and used to supply energy or build energy reserves. Another source² states that excess protein consumed is usually stored as fat, while the surplus of amino acids is excreted. This can lead to weight gain over time, especially if you consume too many calories while trying to increase your protein intake. A third source¹ explains that amino acid decomposition results in hydrocarbons and nitrogenous waste. The latter is converted into urea in the liver and excreted by the kidneys. This process requires water and can cause dehydration if not enough fluid is consumed.
Very interesting ideas, thank you! Your description of deficits seems quite plausible! After reading everything on your substack I started on ex150 with promising results so far (-2.7kg/-6lbs in 4 days). Probably mostly water, still feels good. I hope it's sustainable (the diet, not the loss rate).
I couldn´t find Heavy Cream in Germany, the most fatty cream here is 33% fat. I hope that works.
I have a bit of a problem with the cream: after having twice 200g first day and 200g second day (could have more but was too lazy) I felt physically sick after 300g on the third day. Felt like an upset stomach, I went to sleep feeling quite unwell. On the fourth day I did not want to finish even 200g out of worry that my stomach wouldn't like it (and he didn't... I felt quite unwell). No kind of food sounds appetizing right now, though I suspect the meal later (ground beef/veg/sauce/butter) will taste good. Blood pressure also dropped some in that last days. I hope that works out.
Do you thing I risk being in deficiency if I reduce the cream intake?
On a related note: What software do you use for your diagrams? They look quite clear. I am looking for some kind of program that I can throw all my data in (blood pressure, weight, steps, sleep etc. with data points that are not necessarily taken at the same time or frequency) including time markers (like change in medication or other experiments) and be able to create exploratory graphs and analyses like yours over various variables.
On the sustainability factor. I took the liberty to 'run' your numbers ( male, 38, 245) and the CDC has a range of 87-307g protein/day and the ADA came in at 89 to 111g/day. I realize that there can be some grace given if obese- probably a fair amount of structure is being eliminated and can be recycled for protein use? But I'd still worry that you will hit a wall where the steak YouTubes start flooding in. I guess you can always up the protein a bit at that point and see what happens.
Very interesting story, will certainly follow your updates. I've discovered keto and carnivore a year ago, thought it was the end of all my issues, I leaned out a lot (close to six-pack) but I simply couldn't sustain it for more than a month or two. I either become lethargic and/or grumpy or I 'fall off the wagon' and binge on for example chocolate or french fries. At least for now I'm staying away from alcohol and processed foods as much as possible, which helps to prevent gaining much if any weight. However I find it hard to keep things stable let alone lean out more again. Lots of butter seems to help (also inspired by Hyperlipid/FireInABottle), not too much protein, but also a bit (50ish daily grams) of carbs from plain starches or not too calorie dense fruit (berries and such). I notice it does increase my hunger a bit, but on the other hand decreases the risk of binging.
Thanks so much for the post. I was fascinated and read it 3 times. A couple of questions/comments:
How are you measuring ketosis? What instrumentation are you using?
The requirement you mention about carnivores needing fiber is interesting. I’ve done carnivore for many years. I haven’t encountered tried this. It’s worth experimenting.
As for the diet name, it’s interesting you want to name it ex150. I’ve been on/off carnivore 8 years and I would argue this is common knowledge you can find on the reddit subs for carnivore. Protein spikes insulin, carbs spike insulin, that leads to loading you diet with a ton of fat. Jason Fung has written extensively about this in his books (although does not suggest such an extreme diet but instead fasting). Peomedicina touts a similar diet 2:1 fat:protein ratio but their diet doesn’t suggest fiber and I did find it very hard to stick too only with animal meats (although it was amazingly effective and I felt great on it - except when eating 🙃).
Last point, I find the weight loss you had outside of the country fascinating. What country? I have long been suspicious that we feed animals terribly (soy) and then we eat that meat and feel terrible. I know we often say “ruminants are safe” in the US. I can’t help but want to poke at that often-touted claim more. It would be interesting for you to move back to the country in question and see if something similar happens.
Too much protein on a carnivore diet can suppress ketogenesis. However, I have no problems achieving extremely high levels of ketosis eating adequate protein from meat and the rest as fat (zero fiber). I can keep my GKI between 1 and 2 if I eat around 12-14oz of meat and the rest as animal fat.
Trader Joe's and Sprouts have HC with just two ingredients.
Does it matter if the heavy cream has thickeners like gellan gum or carageenan? Almost impossible to find cream without them (in the US).
Yo dude! This is great. You are an amazing scientist. You have helped me learn new things. I appreciate your time. I want to try the ex150 soon. Im working my way into it. Anyhow I’m here reading your stuff. Godspeed you glorious bastardo. :-)
What do you think about replacing the heavy cream with coconut butter? It's a lot easier to eat in my opinion.
I can't find it in your calculator so we have to improvise a bit. The basic macros on the brand I have are: 65g of fat, 7.3g of sugar, 16g of fiber and 6.9g of protein. Recipes for coconut butter online make it from desiccated coconut, which does have an entry here: https://foods.exfatloss.com/food/170170 . The macros line up with the butter that I've got.
Comparing the protein content to tenderloin steak (https://foods.exfatloss.com/food/170237), it does not seem much worse in terms of BCAA and isoleucine. Only 1.1% PUFA fat, which is why I chose it - it seems even better than heavy cream.
Of course one would have to supplement with some other protein just to make sure all the amino acids are covered. I'm also ignoring the carbs and fiber hoping it does not matter too much.
Your experiments are interesting. I just want to report that I lost 35 lbs in six months, went from 195 to 160. I'm 5'11.
I simply counted calories with the MyNetDiary app. It's a terrific and simple way to diet. You can eat anything you want, just stop when you've reached your daily quota, which for me is about 1,900 calories. I especially like that I can drink 3 oz. of sherry every day :o)
The 'Lents (Soylent, Huel, Mana) that have the fat macro prioritzed are Super Fuel (Customizable, Can easily get to ~55%), Huel RTD (42%, Spendy), & yFood (Upper 40s, just got subsidized by Nestle, only powder that takes water with a good ratio).
I noticed you tried lents & commented that it may have worked had you supplemented them with something really fatty like cream, these are the way when it comes to not having to do extra work.
Low protein can work for awhile, especially if obese, but may not be sustainable long-term. Consider just adding a little protein powder to your coffees for a high protein, low-calorie boost if you reach that point.
Losing weight too fast with low protein intake is associated with heart issues though, so be careful. Good luck!
Bing tells me this:
The metabolism of excess protein is a complex process that involves several steps. According to one source¹, proteins are not stored for later use, so excess proteins must be converted into glucose or triglycerides, and used to supply energy or build energy reserves. Another source² states that excess protein consumed is usually stored as fat, while the surplus of amino acids is excreted. This can lead to weight gain over time, especially if you consume too many calories while trying to increase your protein intake. A third source¹ explains that amino acid decomposition results in hydrocarbons and nitrogenous waste. The latter is converted into urea in the liver and excreted by the kidneys. This process requires water and can cause dehydration if not enough fluid is consumed.
Source: Conversation with Bing, 4/16/2023(1) 24.4 Protein Metabolism – Anatomy & Physiology. https://open.oregonstate.education/aandp/chapter/24-4-protein-metabolism/ Accessed 4/16/2023.
(2) What Happens If You Eat Too Much Protein? - Healthline. https://www.healthline.com/health/too-much-protein Accessed 4/16/2023.
Very interesting ideas, thank you! Your description of deficits seems quite plausible! After reading everything on your substack I started on ex150 with promising results so far (-2.7kg/-6lbs in 4 days). Probably mostly water, still feels good. I hope it's sustainable (the diet, not the loss rate).
I couldn´t find Heavy Cream in Germany, the most fatty cream here is 33% fat. I hope that works.
I have a bit of a problem with the cream: after having twice 200g first day and 200g second day (could have more but was too lazy) I felt physically sick after 300g on the third day. Felt like an upset stomach, I went to sleep feeling quite unwell. On the fourth day I did not want to finish even 200g out of worry that my stomach wouldn't like it (and he didn't... I felt quite unwell). No kind of food sounds appetizing right now, though I suspect the meal later (ground beef/veg/sauce/butter) will taste good. Blood pressure also dropped some in that last days. I hope that works out.
Do you thing I risk being in deficiency if I reduce the cream intake?
On a related note: What software do you use for your diagrams? They look quite clear. I am looking for some kind of program that I can throw all my data in (blood pressure, weight, steps, sleep etc. with data points that are not necessarily taken at the same time or frequency) including time markers (like change in medication or other experiments) and be able to create exploratory graphs and analyses like yours over various variables.
On the sustainability factor. I took the liberty to 'run' your numbers ( male, 38, 245) and the CDC has a range of 87-307g protein/day and the ADA came in at 89 to 111g/day. I realize that there can be some grace given if obese- probably a fair amount of structure is being eliminated and can be recycled for protein use? But I'd still worry that you will hit a wall where the steak YouTubes start flooding in. I guess you can always up the protein a bit at that point and see what happens.
Very interesting story, will certainly follow your updates. I've discovered keto and carnivore a year ago, thought it was the end of all my issues, I leaned out a lot (close to six-pack) but I simply couldn't sustain it for more than a month or two. I either become lethargic and/or grumpy or I 'fall off the wagon' and binge on for example chocolate or french fries. At least for now I'm staying away from alcohol and processed foods as much as possible, which helps to prevent gaining much if any weight. However I find it hard to keep things stable let alone lean out more again. Lots of butter seems to help (also inspired by Hyperlipid/FireInABottle), not too much protein, but also a bit (50ish daily grams) of carbs from plain starches or not too calorie dense fruit (berries and such). I notice it does increase my hunger a bit, but on the other hand decreases the risk of binging.
*cough* Fgf21 *cough*
Thanks so much for the post. I was fascinated and read it 3 times. A couple of questions/comments:
How are you measuring ketosis? What instrumentation are you using?
The requirement you mention about carnivores needing fiber is interesting. I’ve done carnivore for many years. I haven’t encountered tried this. It’s worth experimenting.
As for the diet name, it’s interesting you want to name it ex150. I’ve been on/off carnivore 8 years and I would argue this is common knowledge you can find on the reddit subs for carnivore. Protein spikes insulin, carbs spike insulin, that leads to loading you diet with a ton of fat. Jason Fung has written extensively about this in his books (although does not suggest such an extreme diet but instead fasting). Peomedicina touts a similar diet 2:1 fat:protein ratio but their diet doesn’t suggest fiber and I did find it very hard to stick too only with animal meats (although it was amazingly effective and I felt great on it - except when eating 🙃).
Last point, I find the weight loss you had outside of the country fascinating. What country? I have long been suspicious that we feed animals terribly (soy) and then we eat that meat and feel terrible. I know we often say “ruminants are safe” in the US. I can’t help but want to poke at that often-touted claim more. It would be interesting for you to move back to the country in question and see if something similar happens.
Too much protein on a carnivore diet can suppress ketogenesis. However, I have no problems achieving extremely high levels of ketosis eating adequate protein from meat and the rest as fat (zero fiber). I can keep my GKI between 1 and 2 if I eat around 12-14oz of meat and the rest as animal fat.